Thieleman J. van Braght · 140 of 210

Old Book of the Martyrs Mirror · Part 78

Herm. Because we wish to be only Christians, therefore we do not want to hearken to the teachings of the ancient fathers; for they describe popery, as of sponsors, of the sacrament of confirmation, and the whole popery which you follow and observe:

Fr. Corn. O you damned, accursed Anabaptist, do you call the sacrament of confirmation popery?

Herm. What else is it then? for I have never read in the holy Scriptures of the sacrament of confirmation.

Fr. Corn. Bah, and are so dull, awkward and block headed, that you do not understand it, though you read of it; for confirmation means the imposition of hands, see.

Herm. Ah, does it mean this? pardon me, that through my awkwardness and dullness I do not understand such very high and fine Latin.

Fr. Corn. Ah, bah, did I say it is Latin, see here.

Herm. What language is it then? I certainly would like to know.

Fr. Corn. Bah, that I do not know myself; but we Catholics understand it by the word confirmation, the sacrament of confirmation, or the laying on of the hands of the bishop, when our bishops and suffragans confirm grown up children or adults, as also the apostles did; hence it is that I say, that you sectarians read of many holy sacramental things in the Scriptures, which you do not understand, and therefore you do not know our sacrament of confirmation, that you do not.

Herm. If your bishops or suffragans by such confirmation and laying on of hands could give to the grown up children and adults the Holy Ghost, and that they spake with tongues, and prophesied as did the apostles, and also those upon whom they laid their hands, then I should very well understand and know your confirmation.

Fr. Corn. Bah, there had to be miracles then, when the people did not believe yet, in order that they might believe the apostles; do you understand this, you stupid Anabaptist?

Herm. If Christ had commanded you to imitate such layin on of hands, He would also do those miracles tough you. Hence, when your bishops do such miracles with their confirmation and imposition of hands, then I shall believe you too.

Fr. Corn. Tush, tush, tush, these are the same arguments and chatterings which also your accursed hedge preacher advanced yesterday against the sacrament of confirmation, and the sacrament of extreme unction. Bah, though Christ Himself did not command us to imitate it, the apostles commanded us to do it; for does not St. James, in the fifth chapter, command that when any one is sick, the priests of the church are to be sent for, to pray over him, and to anoint him with oil, eh?

Herm. The oil of which James writes must have been another oil than your oil; for with that the sick were anointed, that they should recover from their sickness, and they did recover from it. But you priests do the very opposite; for if you knew beforehand, that the sick should recover, and not die, you would not anoint them with oil; for you anoint no sick persons with oil except those who you think will die.

Fr. Corn. Bah, my lords, did I not well know, that it would be the same thing which it was yesterday with their hedge preacher? Bah, I lay you a wager, that if I begin to prove to him, from the same fifth chapter of St. James, the sacrament of confession, he will also say, as his hedge preacher said yesterday, that I also ought to confess my sins to him; just see, with what we are tormented and vexed.

Herm. Did this seem to you so strange an answer from him? for it is nevertheless written

"Confess your sins one to another.." But when you priests learn from people all that you wish to know, then you let them go, and do not yourselves confess to them who have confessed (as you call it) their sins to you.

Fr. Corn. Yes, we call it confession, and it is confession, and shall remain confession, in spite of your teeth. Ah, bah, would it not be a fine thing, if we priests also had to kneel down and confess ourselves to the laity; and would they have the power to absolve us from sin? I suppose so. Bah, what a fine absolution that would be! Bah, and if I here confess myself to you, would you be so presumptuous as to think that you have power to loose or forgive my sins, eh?

Herm. Such power as you or all priests have to forgive sin, all men have; for Christ says, Mark 11:25: "Forgive, if ye have aught against any that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." Again, Luke 6:37: "Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven."

Fr. Corn. O you accursed Anabaptist, have you laymen priestly authority to forgive sin in confession? .Bah, the forgiveness of sin of which Christ speaks, Mark 11; Luke 6, does not concern confession or absolution. * * * Bah, we priests have in the sacrament of confession and absolution a special priestly authority to forgive and to retain sin, that we do.

Herm. Whence do you priests get a special authority to forgive sin, more than we, whom you call laymen?

Fr. Corn. Bah, this special authority which Christ delivered to His vicar, St. Peter, and St. Peter left it to his vicars the popes, and the popes impart to us of that power, because they cannot themselves in person everywhere hear confession, and absolve, see.

Herm. That the popes and you priests have the special power to forgive and to retain sin, which

Christ gave to Peter, this you will not be able to show to me with the holy Scriptures.

Fr. Corn. Indeed? O you accursed Anabaptist, the executioner will be able very well to show it to you, by kindling a good fire * * * and the very devils in hell will also show it to you with burning pitch, brimstone, and tar .in the fire of hell; this I swear to you, that I do.

Herm. You papists can demonstrate your faith, doctrine and religion with nothing better than with the executioner, and with sword, fire, rope and gallows; for these are the best demonstrations or proofs which you have, and thus your forefathers demonstrated their faith and doctrine to God's prophets, to Christ, to His apostles, and to the saints of God, from the blood of Abel until now.

Fr. Corn. Ha, you hellish, devilish, damned, accursed Anabaptists, for what do you take our holy fathers the popes and us priests? may thunder and lightning kill, burn and pulverize you. Bah, that I should thus excite, exasperate and disquiet myself for such an accursed Anabaptist.

Clerk o f the criminal court. Tush, tush, Father Cornelis, and Herman, speak gently with each other.

Fr. Corn. Yes indeed, be gentle towards such bedeviled, bewitched, heretics, who do not believe anything. In good faith, do you Anabaptists then go thus unconfessed and unabsolved to your supper? I suppose so; for,you regard it but as a bit of simple common bread, and a little draught of com, mon, flat wine. The transubstantiation in the sacrament of the altar with you is only popery, .yea, sorcery, and we priests are regarded as sorcerers by you, because we adjure and conjure the true flesh and blood of Christ in the host and in the cup, as you Sacramentarians say, ill betide you.

Herm. Such confession, or absolution, or sacrament of the altar we do not use in our church, but we observe such forgiveness of sins, as Christ commands us, Mark 11; and Luke 6, and such breaking of bread, and distribution of the cup, as He in His last supper commands us to do for His remembrance.

Fr. Corn. Bah, but with that forgiveness of sins Christ means this when your neighbor has done aught amiss to you; but I ask concerning the sins which you people have sinned against God whether you go with these unconfessed and unabsolved to your devil's supper, eh?

Herm. We pray as Christ has taught us, Matthew 6:12. "Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." And we use no devil's supper.

Fr. Corn. Your breaking of bread, and distribution of the cup is the devil's supper of which Paul writes in the tenth chapter of his first epistle to the Corinthians: "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils; ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils: But the cup of blessing which we bless," that is, we Catholics, "is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion.of the body of Christ?" Bah, and is your bit of bread, and your cup with a little draught of flat wine not a devil's supper? for you sacramentarians do not bless your cup, nor do you consecrate your bit of bread, but it is wine and bread, and remains wine and bread; bah, let us hear what you can answer against this, that will be conclusive.

Herm. In regard to this, I must ask you, whether you yourself believe, that Christ in His last supper meant no other body or flesh, and no other blood, than that which was to be broken and shed on the cross for the remission of sins.

Fr. Corn. Ah, bah; and should I not believe this? this is quite Catholic, that it is.

Herm. Well you will certainly also confess, I think, that the bread which the apostles le at the supper was not crucified.

Fr: Corn. Bah, what hellish, devilish, heretical question is this; never in all the days of my life did I hear such a deep question. Bah, I believe and know very well, that the apostles ate the same body or flesh of Jesus Christ, which the day after the supper was to be crucified, see.

Herm. Therefore, poor man, you do not understand the sense or meaning of Christ, though Paul in the tenth chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians very clearly explains the same, saying

"Behold Israel after the flesh; are not they which eat of the sacrifice partakers of the altar?" Thus also are we in the eating of the bread, and in the drinking .of the wine, partakers of the body and blood of Christ.

Fr. Corn: Bah, you accursed Sacramentarian, would you compare the flesh of God to the rotten flesh of oxen, and the lousy flesh of sheep, and to the, rotten, putrid flesh of goats and other beasts and carrions? * * * Bah, fie, what abominable and horrible heresy is this?

Herm. You understand neither Paul nor me; for what I say is this, that Paul by this comparison of the sacrifices of the altar (which the Jews ate, and thereby became partakers of the sacrifice in the remission of sins) explains and expounds the communion or participation of the broken bread and of the cup of wine (which we eat and drink in remembrance of the body and blood of Christ), that we thus also become partakers in the washing from sins through the body and blood of Christ, which He offered up for the sins of the world.

Fr. Corn. Ah, bah, see, now I plainly understand your heretical, Sacramentarian meaning, that you only make comparisons and memorials of the flesh and blood of Christ. Eh, accursed Anabaptist, why then does St. Paul say, in the eleventh chapter of his first epistle to the Corinthians: "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body." Bah, answer me once to this, you accursed Sacramentarian, that you are.

Herm. In the tenth chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians Paul writes: "We being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." Again in the twelfth chapter

"We are all members of one body." If we then are members of one body, unto which Christ has united us together by His baptism and by His Spirit, no external sign can be fitter, to show or signify the union of one body, than that in the breaking of bread we all become partakers of one bread, in token that we being many are one bread and body. Likewise it is also with the wine; for as many grains are ground together, and made into one bread, so of many grapes one drink is made. Therefore let every one examine himself, whether he be worthy of the communion of the bread and of the cup of the Lord, and whether he love his fellow brother with a pure heart: for if he hates his brother, and does not love him, and would besides make himself a partaker yet of the bread and of the cup of the Lord as though he were a member of Christ, he shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord, and shall eat judgment to himself, not discerning, that the body of the Lord is signified by this communion or participation, that we are members of one body, into which Christ has united us.

Fr. Corn. Tush, tush, tush I it seems that you also could preach a little sermon in the Gruthuysbosch. Bah, this people know nothing else to do but to preach; but you would have to preach a long time to me, before I would believe that a man will eat and drink judgment to himself on a bit of common bread, and a little draught of wine, by which you Sacramentarians would only signify the body and blood of Christ. Bah, I would rather believe that God's name is Henry, that I would.

Herm. What greater importance was there in the sacrifices of the Jews, of sheep and doves, than in the bread and wine, which are all types of the true sacrifice which Christ made on the cross in His own flesh and blood? And if the Jews had nevertheless, according to the command of Christ, to lay down their offering before the altar, and first go and become reconciled to their brother, before they were to offer, then a Christian also ought first to examine himself, before he partakes of the bread and .the cup of the Lord.

Fr. Corn. Bah, a thousand devils, God bless us, if the bread and the wine are only types of the true sacrifice of the flesh and blood of Christ on the cross why then does He say in the sixth chapter of John: "The bread that I will give is my flesh;" again: "My flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed; therefore he that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, shall live forever," eh?

Herm. This argument is against yourself, for you would say that the bread is therefore the body of Christ, and the wine His blood, because Paul says, that whosoever eats and drinks it unworthily eats and drinks judgment to himself. And here Christ says: "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, shall live forever." If therefore that bread and wine of which Paul writes, were the flesh and blood of Christ, no one could therein eat judgment to himself.

Fr. Corn. Bah, this accursed Sacramentarian would torment and pester us here, I suppose, with all these abominable blasphemies against God's true body and blood. Bah, the very devil of hell sits in his accursed mouth.

Herm. I have not mentioned one word about the body and blood of God; how then can I have blasphemed there against?

Fr. Corn. O you accursed Anabaptist and Sacramentarian, are the body and blood of Christ not also the body and blood of God? are God the Father and the Son of God not one God, or would you make two Gods of them. Bah, are you also a Trinitarian, I suppose, eh?

Herm. Yet you said, when you wanted to dispute about the mass, that you priests daily in the mass, offer up to God His Son Jesus Christ; hence you make a distinction between God and the body of His Son, which you now begin to call the flesh and body of God.

Fr. Corn. Bah, the devil and 'his mother wag your tongue. You would now like to bite into my trap, would you? Ali, you wicked, vile, false, crafty Anabaptist and Sacramentarian, yea, also Trinitarian, because you speak so abominably of the holy Trinity, do you then not believe, that Christ is the second person in the Godhead of the holy Trinity? Bah, it seems not from your speaking.

Herm. We only know to speak of things that are mentioned in the holy Scriptures.

Fr. Corn. O you Trinitarian, do we not read in the holy Scriptures of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of God the Holy Ghost, eh?

Herm. Yet the holy Scriptures speak of only one God, and of the Son of the living God, and of the Holy Ghost.

Fr. Corn. Indeed? you accursed Trinitarian; if you would read the symbol* of Athanasius, you would read of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of God the Holy Ghost, which three persons are therein called one true God, of whom the Father is the first person in the Godhead; the Son is the second person in the Godhead, and the Holy Ghost is the third person in the Godhead; and these three persons constitute the holy Trinity, that they do. Do you understand now, you Trinitarian, eh?

Herm. I have not studied the symbol of Athanasius; for it is enough for me, that I believe in the living God, and that Christ is the Son of the living God, as Peter believed (Matt. 16), and in the Holy Ghost, which is shed on us abundantly through

* Creed.

Jesus Christ our Saviour, as Paul writes in the third chapter of his epistle to Titus.

Fr. Corn. Indeed? you are certainly fine fellows, that God should shed His Holy Spirit upon you who will not believe that the Holy Ghost is also God Himself. But this heresy you pick up and study in the devilish books of that accursed Erasmus of Rotterdam, who in his preface to the books of St. Hilary writes, that St. Hilary, at the end of his twelfth book, says, that the Holy Ghost is nowhere in the holy Scriptures called God, but that we have become so presumptuous as to dare call the Holy Ghost God, which the ancient teachers of the church did not dare do. In like manner this wicked Erasmus is also a great enemy of the divinity of Christ. Ah, bah I would you follow this damned Trinitarian, eh?

Herm. We follow neither Erasmus nor Hilary, but we follow the holy Scriptures, as Hilary and Erasmus herein do.

Fr. Corn. Though the holy Scriptures nowhere call the Holy Spirit God, what matters it? The Holy Ghost Himself has inspired our mother the holy Roman Catholic church, to call Him God, as appears from the symbol of Athanasius, see. But in good faith, if you believe the holy Scriptures, why then will you not believe in the divinity of Christ, eh?

Herm. That be far from us, that we should not believe in the divinity of Christ, that He is divine and heavenly, and not earthly, as you people believe; therefore we are put to death by you.

Fr. Corn. * * * Bah, we put you to death, because you people will not believe, that Christ assumed the seed of Mary His blessed mother, see.

Herm. We believe that the Word became flesh, as John writes in the first chapter of his Gospel.

Fr. Corn. Bah, now I have got you well cornered; for God was the Word. And if God became flesh, why then would you bite into my trap, because I say, God's flesh, God's body, and God's blood, eh?

Herm. We too believe that God was the Word; but would you then therefrom understand, that the living God (of whom Christ is the Son) became Himself flesh? this were certainly contrary to the entire holy Scriptures.

Fr. Corn. Yet Christ says, John 10:30: "1 and my Father are one." Again, John 14:9: "He that bath seen me bath seen the Father." Bah, where are you now, eh?

Herm. Christ also says (John 17:21-23): "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one." Again (Acts 4:32): "The multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul." Again, Paul to the Galatians (3:8) says: "For ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Again (Ephesians 5:31, 32): "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery."

Fr. Corn. Tush, tush, you have preached enough; for all this you have drawn from the venomous breasts of Erasmus. But answer me, why Christ says: "He that bath seen me bath seen the Father," see.

Herm. Christ also says, John 6:46: "Not that any man bath seen the Father, save he which is of the Father, he bath seen the Father." Again, John 1:18: "No man bath seen God at any time." Again, John 14:28: "For my Father is greater than I." Again, Mark 13:32: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." From this it is sufficiently shown that the Father Himself did not become flesh.

Fr. Corn. Bah, this you need not teach me; for I say myself that Christ, the second person in the Godhead, or of the holy Trinity, became man, whom you will not call God; do you understand this, you accursed Trinitarian that you are?

Herm. I call Him the Son of the living God, as Peter called Him. (Matt. 16:16), and Lord, as the apostles call Him.

Fr. Corn. O you accursed Trinitarian, I could jump out of my skin for anger, that I could.

Herm. Then you must jump out of your skin, when in the second chapter of the Acts of the apostles (verse 22), you read that Peter calls Him but a man of God, saying: "Jesus of Nazareth, a man* approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him." Again, in the same chapter (verse 32): "This Jesus bath God raised up." Again, in the third chapter (verse 15) "Whom God bath raised from the dead." Again in Acts 4:10: "Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead." Again, Paul (Acts 17:31) says: "Because he bath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he bath ordained; whereof he bath given assurance unto all men, in that he bath raised him from the dead."

Fr. Corn. Yes, yes, tush, tush, tush, bah I these are the same arguments which this damned Erasmus prefers, in his book, de modo orandi, and in Apologia ad Episcopum Hispalensem, Alphonsum Mauracum. But you Trinitarian, if you will call Christ only the Son of God, you do not esteem Him better than Adam; for Luke says in his third chapter, that Adam also was the son of God. Bah! see once, with what we are tormented.

Herm. That be far from us, that we should not esteem Christ better than Adam; for because we believe, that the body of Christ is not earthy of the earth, as was Adam the first man, but that He is a heavenly man, as Paul writes in the fifteenth chapter of his first epistle to the Corinthians; therefore

* See German version.

we are put to death by you; hence you yourselves do not esteem Him better than Adarii.

Fr. Corn. O you accursed Trinitarian, how the devil does wag your tongue. Bah, if you, will not. believe, that Christ is truly man; and if you will also not believe that He is the true God, what * * * is He then?

Herm. Do not talk so unbecomingly; for 'Christ is no devil; but He is the true Son of God, 'as John writes in the fifth chapter of his first epistle; and He is also a true man; as Paul writes in the fifth chapter of his epistle to the Romans.

Fr. Corn. Bah, but does not St. John in the same chapter say of the Son: "This is the true, God;" eh?

Herm. No, for John says: "We know that .the Son of God is come, and hath given us an under= standing, that we may know the true God, and that we should be in his true Son. 'This is the true God, and eternal life." Hereby John means this true God whom the Son taught us to know:

Fr. Corn. Bah, you Trinitarian; now it occurs to me that St. John says in the same chapter: "There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one." Bah, here you are, soundly cornered, poor Trinitarian that you are.

Herm. I have often heard it said; that Erasmus in his Annotations charges you papists with having interpolated these words, and that they are not contained in the Greek text, even as you people have taken out and added many other things' in the holy Scriptures.

Fr. Corn. Bah, may the fire of hell forever burn and torment you with your devilish, damned, accursed heretic Erasmus. Bah, I 'could tear my cap for anger; that I could:

Herm. Why then do you not tear, your cap, when you read that Greek text yourslf; and' see that this is not contained in it?

Fr. Corn. Bah, my lords, what do you think of this am I wrong in so sharply attacking in my sermons this damned heretic, , this wicked Trinitarian Erasmus? For it is true, this he writes; yea, what is still worse, in his Annotations to the fourth chapter of St. Luke he has written.; that a very great and strange corruption has been wrought:in the holy Scriptures in the Greek and Latin copies, that sometimes something is added and interpolated and sometimes something taken away, omitted, and erased, on account of the heretics; yea, that the marginal notes which were now and then written by one or the other have all been foisted into the text, my lords, is it not a fine thing?

Recorder. Ali, Father Cornelis, we are no theologians; we do not understand these things.

Fr. Corn. Indeed? Bah, I believe it; but this Trinitarian would certainly understand it very well, as you hear, that he charges us with it. Bah, he would dare charge us Catholics with his archheretic, this wicked Erasmus, that in the ,ninth chapter of Romans, where Paul says: "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came;" we' have interpolated: "Who is over all, God blessed forever: Amen." For this accursed .Erasmus writes, that he has great doubts with regard to this clause: "Oui est benedictus in saecula. Amen." Or these words are to be interpretedand understood as a thanksgiving to God the Father; thus, "Christ, etc., who is over ail. God be blessed for ever. Amen." "Otherwise," he writes; "I have great doubts; whether this clause has not been interpolated, as I find also in some other texts, that they have added similar clauses, for .the conclusion of discourses, as, Tu autem Domine; etc.; Gloria Patri et Filio, etc., as their lessons and prayers are all concluded with such clauses." But as regards the words of St. Thomas, in the twentieth chapter of St. John's gospel, you have no way of escape; for there St. Thomas said to Christ: "My Lord and my God." Bah, to this he does not reply, yea, with this he is soundly cornered nevertheless, he spitefully writes with regard to this: "This is the first and last passage in the Scriptures, where Christ is called God." Bah, but you Trinitarian, let us hear what you can say to this.

Herm. I reply to this, that Thomas said very well here; for David says in the eighty second Psalm: "I have said, Ye are gods'; and all of you are children. of the Most High." Christ Himself also quotes these words in the tenth chapter of John. When the Jews took up stones to stone Him, because He had said, "I and the Fattier are one," esus answered them: "Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?' The Jews answered him, saying: For a good work we stone thee not; but for'blaspherny; and because that thou, being a man, iiiakest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods. If he called.them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, thou blasphemest;. because I said, I am the son of God?" Again, Ex. 22:8, 9: "If the thief, be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the gods, etc. The cause of both parties shall come before the gods; and whom the gods. shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbor."